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Post by tplayer47 on Nov 9, 2016 4:04:31 GMT
I got onto the server a bit late, was a little afk, and when I got back, everyone was on a job. I was approached by someone to go to said event, so I agreed. On the way to it, I was told in OOC that it was a 'hardcore' event, and so I was going to be pretty careful about it. The moment I get into the area, I can clearly see someone laying down on a scrappy, rickety tower, and a few moments prior, I had heard a gunshot, so I safely assumed that this person was a enemy sniper. However, the moment I move back and say, "I think I see a sniper," Jtod4 comes up and says, When I ask if he's literally not there, or if he's just hard to see, I got no response whatsoever. Naturally, I walk back and stay back in cover. Spoiler, it was a sniper. That's a pretty shitty thing to do, seeing as how I had reasonable proof to suspect that there was a sniper in the area, huh? Anyway, I round the corner we're behind, with myself, Mike/Deadly, and Lola/Lighty, and we come up to the right side of the rock we're behind. From this angle, I cannot even see the tower, it's tucked behind the map's dust, but I obviously don't take that into consideration, and I'm staying right where I am. So then, a grenade goes off, and it was at the very base of the very, very rickety tower. Let's talk about the tower for a moment. i.gyazo.com/bcbe50ea59e9d5ccfb1943034f408466.jpgIt's a pretty rickety looking thing. Sure, it'd topple over because it defies the laws of physics, but whatever. A grenade blew up right on the supports of it, and while I wouldn't say it'd make the tower fall, it would most definitely give it a shake or two. So, I take that chance to move up a bit, and I run for a truck ahead of me. Look at the image, this is what I see from my angle. i.gyazo.com/72cf187e37390fbf16b30270bad7d806.jpgI can't even see the tower, at all. That's because it's behind the wall/truck, there's no visible line of sight with the sniper. So naturally, in the first decisive /me I took in the event, Jtod4 decided to get my head blown off. Now, I'm going to show you the angle the sniper had, with some markers as to where I was. i.gyazo.com/c24ec097122827af4c3fc80a0aac29df.jpg+ The kill i.gyazo.com/0d9d94c4bac0adaea1f27ee5e1fb3c63.jpgI feel like I'm playing CSGO. A grenade just shook the firing position this raider was in, and maybe 2 seconds after the blast went off, not only does he still have the un-supressed idea to shoot his gun, he lands a kill shot on a running target that's well over 200 meters, through cover. Yeah, I got pretty mad at that, and I'll admit, I flamed Jtod4, probably didn't help things, but the reason I did was because of what he told me when I told him that was bullshit. That's the entire reason why I'm making this complaint. I was salty about getting shot, but the "you messed up," aspect really pissed me off. No, I really didn't mess it up. Hell, the other person I was with even left the event after seeing that, who was on my side when I was arguing. That, combined with Lighty telling me, "It was a hardcore event, you shouldn't be mad," just makes this absolutely retarded. Yeah, I understand what a hardcore event is, I was very well planning on not getting out in one piece. But getting headshotted in the first /me I do from an impossible angle with impossible conditions and being told that I was wrong and should chill out, is bullshit. I'm sure some people had fun with the event, but I sure didn't, nor did the person who was with me.
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Post by BreathingIsNotHereRN on Nov 9, 2016 4:22:21 GMT
I had a small issue with the event as well, not entirely with this certain subject though.
I ran up onto the scene and was nearly shot, then I moved locations where the sniper wouldn't have seen me. Apparently to my surprise, he saw me instantly when I got up onto my new rock. After that, I decided to wait until the sniper fired a bullet, then the sniper fired his bullet. I peaked up and looked around for a sniper glare and if I found it I would've instantly fired a bullet. I was instead greeted with a bullet to the skull and after I was shot, I was told that I saw the glare and my bullet didn't fire off at the person.
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Post by deadlynachos on Nov 9, 2016 4:42:39 GMT
I was the friend/person with Tplayer when he happened to get shot. I didn't know Jtod4 or ever spoken to him before I came to this event, so I went over there and joined the fight expecting to have some fun and to have a FAIR challenge seeing as I was told it would be a "hard" event beforehand. I was wrong, proven by what Tplayer said in his post and I'll spare you all the reading of me just explaining the same scenario and copying what he said.
I don't mind having difficult events that raise the bar high for players but what happened was extremely unfair and illogical. I'm no expert on grenades, but I'm pretty sure that an explosion would've had SOME sort of brief effect on that lone sniper up there. I believe that Tplayer had his character make a smart move by doing what he did, but he managed to hit the dust anyways by taking a direct bullet to the head from this dead-eye sniper.
I've been role-playing on Gmod for several years now and have administrated as an event-focused admin for a good number of the servers I've played on, so I got a good feeling of what makes a good event admin and a bad one. Events should be created to provide the players not always necessarily a challenge, but entertainment. It must always be able to entertain people and give people somega sense of excitement and kill boredom. This is a game, after allunch, and it's also a realistic one. This event was neither enjoyable nor realistic. Tplayer's character was killed on the first little risk he made and he was sent right back to that empty town after practically being called stupid for making such a poor mistake. This administrator, wherever he came from, needs to be taught and improve on his skills or just stay away from events all-together.
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Post by Lighty on Nov 9, 2016 5:26:43 GMT
Just adding in a bit on missed context here. The sniper fired at us before you moved, as in he knew we were there.
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Post by tplayer47 on Nov 9, 2016 5:29:12 GMT
Even then, a grenade had gone off just below him, and it would most likely shake the foundation he was on, and I advanced under cover, as seen in the image.
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Post by deadlynachos on Nov 9, 2016 5:29:48 GMT
Some more missing context, if it matters: The sniper was using a varmint rifle with a scope on it.
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Post by jtod on Nov 9, 2016 6:14:29 GMT
The moment I get into the area, I can clearly see someone laying down on a scrappy, rickety tower, and a few moments prior, I had heard a gunshot, so I safely assumed that this person was a enemy sniper. However, the moment I move back and say, "I think I see a sniper," Jtod4 comes up and says, When I ask if he's literally not there, or if he's just hard to see, I got no response whatsoever. Naturally, I walk back and stay back in cover. Spoiler, it was a sniper. That's a pretty shitty thing to do, seeing as how I had reasonable proof to suspect that there was a sniper in the area, huh? Alright. When you asked this, there was no sniper. ICly, he was fighting with someone in the tower. And you can see a guy, laying prone and not moving, instantly? Anyways. You looked, and didn't see anyone, and went back to cover. I asked in LOOC if you could see the tower, you said no. During this time period, the sniper had returned to his original spot. I don't type something out if people can't actually see it to avoid subconscious meta. This is a *grenade.* It isn't dynamite or something. It isn't going to shake the earth and shake the tower to the point where it will disrupt aim. You were not in cover; I noclipped and checked if there was a shot. You got shot seconds after coming out from behind the rock. Not the circled red area, but above it. Not to mention, you tried to go the same way despite being shot at.
The event had a system to it; if you got spotted, you got shot at, but not hit. If you popped out at the same place twice, you got killed. If you went around to a different spot, or actually waited until the sniper shot at someone else, you would be fine. You were running / crouched when you walked into sniper view. If had been crawling and taking more time, you woulda been fine. Once again, the first shot didn't harm you and acted merely as a warning. You tried to shoot from a position where you had already been detected. As for glare, there is no guarantee there is going to be a glare at all. You fired, and missed. You would have to set up your gun and find the guy first. He already knew where you were at. Instead of outright killing you, chose to spare you; shot in the head, but not killed, just disfigured. Had I wanted to, the sniper could have been armed with a 30-06 and just have insta-kill body shots. It was a fair challenge, if people had actually used tactics. No-one tried to find a way to scale the rocks, no-one tried to take a long way around and see if they could flank the sniper, no-one attempted to use suppressing fire. As for the grenade case, I don't think a grenade is going to fell 3-4 trees (in this case, supports) and shake the very tops of them much. As for difficulty and realism? I make my events difficult for the people that find entertainment from a challenge. Tplayer was not called stupid in -ANY- way, I simply said "You made a mistake, man." To which, he responded by flaming me and saying "Fuck you." As for fairness? An unarmed man made it to the tower, climbed up the tower, and held his own. Had he possessed a gun, he would have killed the sniper. Instead, he lost in grappling, and was shot. A second man, armed with only a piece of rebar, managed to kill the sniper. A third set the tower alight with a molotov, having waited *the entire event* and doing nothing. No-one was forced to sprint into an area where they know there is a sniper. Improbable aiming skills? Yeah, not gonna lie. But I coulda just made the sniper have a 30-06, and instakill people with bodyshots. Lastly, I'm from Kentucky.
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Post by jtod on Nov 9, 2016 6:17:37 GMT
Some more missing context, if it matters: The sniper was using a varmint rifle with a scope on it. The model was a varmint rifle with a scope on it. This is correct. It was not, however, ICly a .22. How would the event be hardmode if it's one guy with a .22 rifle? Additionally, I was going to consider reversing my actions and simply leaving Tplayer as wounded, but instead he chose to flame me and not listen to reason. Also, back to the flaming issue. I say "look man, you messed up, don't argue," and you decide to respond by hurling insults? I told you not to argue so you wouldn't kill the RP for the others. I never said, "lol you fucking dumbass get shat on bubby." You made a mistake: you tried to move from a position when you had just been shot at. It's not an insult. My definition of HARD is simple- you make ANY errors, you get seriously hurt or wind up dead. If you think about what you're doing, you'll be fine. "Someone just took a shot at me- probably should wait until he shoots at someone else, suppress him, or flank around."
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Post by BreathingIsNotHereRN on Nov 9, 2016 6:46:58 GMT
I was running / crouched? I specifically put that I went prone in the /me. I also put that I was crouching my way all the way over to a different position.
After that I decided to peek over, yeah? I looked for the glare, and IF there was one I would've fired. Yet, you decided to put that I got shot in the face, then a few seconds earlier you put "oh yeah there's a glare btw." And since there was a glare, I would've fired, but that was completely ignored and now you're saying that it missed, even with the event over.
I'm just pissed that he somehow managed to flick onto me in a couple of seconds of peeking. Not to mention he was busy shooting at someone else. There was a time in between shots in which I looked over. The sniper shot at the other group but then magically flicked over to me.
It was virtually impossible to make any moves because of the fact that the sniper was locked onto my position EVERY time I switched around. I went one side, that was looked at. Soon I moved positions, apparently that's looked at too.
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Post by jtod on Nov 9, 2016 7:00:53 GMT
If I recall correctly, you went prone after being shot at. By peeking up, I assume you mean exposing your head and your rifle just enough to aim. That isn't exactly peeking, and you wouldn't have been able to see anything without the use of your scope or if you simply glanced at the area for a split second.
As state previously, you were shot because the sniper knew where you were, and you exposed yourself.
I'm pretty sure the sniper didn't fire at anyone when you popped your head up, but I may be wrong.
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Post by tplayer47 on Nov 9, 2016 7:01:55 GMT
Grenades are powerful. Fragmentation, or High Explosive, it really doesn't matter. The force of the explosive mixture is enough to shake the fillings/dust loose from walls. Personally, a few years back when I was in training, I was propped up against a cement brick wall, and a live grenade was tossed into the house. I heard it roll to the far wall, which was roughly 30-40 feet from our point of entry, and I still felt the impact even while outside on the exterior wall. Grenades can and will mess your aim up, especially if you're on the top of a rickety tower that just had a grenade blast under it.
I didn't make a mistake. I understand that I was shot at, but I saw that a grenade had gone off under the guy, and from my point of view, I was behind cover.
Your event was otherwise good, and I liked the way you handled the information with players/events, but that sniper was absurd. I know I flamed on you, and I'm sorry about that, I DID go off the hook and insult you, and I apologize, but god damn, you have to understand that the sniper was a bit OP, right? Hardcore event or not, an event is NEVER going to be fun if The White Death himself is landing extremely hard kill shots. I should have toned it down a notch and taken a wound, but I think that sniper really shouldn't have been THAT good. That is SF MARSOC level scary.
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Post by jtod on Nov 9, 2016 7:15:32 GMT
Grenades are powerful. Fragmentation, or High Explosive, it really doesn't matter. The force of the explosive mixture is enough to shake the fillings/dust loose from walls. Personally, a few years back when I was in training, I was propped up against a cement brick wall, and a live grenade was tossed into the house. I heard it roll to the far wall, which was roughly 30-40 feet from our point of entry, and I still felt the impact even while outside on the exterior wall. Grenades can and will mess your aim up, especially if you're on the top of a rickety tower that just had a grenade blast under it. I didn't make a mistake. I understand that I was shot at, but I saw that a grenade had gone off under the guy, and from my point of view, I was behind cover. Your event was otherwise good, and I liked the way you handled the information with players/events, but that sniper was absurd. I know I flamed on you, and I'm sorry about that, I DID go off the hook and insult you, and I apologize, but god damn, you have to understand that the sniper was a bit OP, right? Hardcore event or not, an event is NEVER going to be fun if The White Death himself is landing extremely hard kill shots. I should have toned it down a notch and taken a wound, but I think that sniper really shouldn't have been THAT good. That is SF MARSOC level scary. You got shot once you left from behind the rocks. Yeah, it was improbable aim, but once again, I coulda just made it a 30-06 body shot, and the result would have been the same. Even if you were behind the wood when you were sot at, it has holes in it. Not to mention, you should have known you weren't behind cover after the warning shot. If you had waited for the sniper to fire at someone else or went around, you would have survived. The grenade exploded at the very bottom of the tower, way under.
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Post by Lighty on Nov 9, 2016 12:42:57 GMT
Before this goes on any further, what is the resolution that you want to obtain from this complaint? We can argue the specifics of how powerful a grenade is, if the sniper is to OP, if the angles are impossible, etc. But unless there's some kind of end-goal from this, either a change in decision from the event, or just to put out some constructive criticism, we're just going to keep going in circles with this.
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Post by tplayer47 on Nov 10, 2016 0:09:40 GMT
I was pretty done. I apologize to Jtod for flaming, and by no means do I want his events to stop, but hopefully he can use this criticism to shape future events a bit. Other than that, I don't think it needs to be continued.
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Post by Lighty on Nov 10, 2016 0:49:29 GMT
Alright, fair enough. I'll discuss things and hopefully a noticable improvement will be seen by next time.
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