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Post by Raksho on Oct 31, 2017 4:53:09 GMT
Is there any kind of scale regarding armor protection? as it stands, sometimes armor protects against bullets and other times it doesnt, for example my raider character had his metal armor pierced by .357 and .44 magum rounds, but apparently it shares the same damage protections as combat armor? Can combat armor be pierced by pistol caliber weapons? If so, hunting rifles should completely shred combat armor, there seems to be some sort of confusion and mix-ups regarding what armor protects against what. I suggest the admins come up with some sort of actual scaling so we can see what's what in the armor world. Or I could pitch some ideas.
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Post by jtod on Oct 31, 2017 5:10:09 GMT
Low tier: Leather - Slashes from blades. Raider - Slashing, stabbing, blunt. Depending on the type (metal), may occasionally block a bullet from handguns. Metal - Slashing, stabbing, blunt, laser. May block rifle rounds depending on distance. Heavy weight reduces mobility, also has low durability. Metal MK. 2 - Slashing, stabbing, blunt, laser, rifle rounds. Heavy weight reduces mobility, also has low durability. Ballistic Vests - Only stops handgun rounds. Low durability.
Medium tier: Stealth Suits - Varies on the suit. Combat - Blocks rifle rounds, laser, and plasma. Higher durability and mobility than metal. Combat MK. 2 - Blocks rifle rounds, laser, and plasma. Stronger than MK.1. Duh. Ranger Armor - Same as combat MK.2
Max tier: Raider PA - Explosions, high caliber rounds, laser, plasma. T-45 - Explosions, high caliber rounds, laser, plasma, electric, radiation. T-51 - Explosions, high caliber rounds, laser, plasma, electric, radiation APA - Explosions, high caliber rounds, laser, plasma, electric, radiation
Made this in a heartbeat. May contain errors or flaws. Made in ascending order of rarity, price, and protection.
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Post by Raksho on Oct 31, 2017 6:20:14 GMT
Combat armor in lore doesn't protect against plasma at all though, and generalizing with rifle rounds is kind of dangerous, 5.56 is not equal to .308, etc etc. Metal armor should idealy be blocking pistol rounds, not rifle rounds in general since rifles typically have vastly better piercing capabilities then handguns. Also, I appreciate clarifying.
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Post by jtod on Oct 31, 2017 22:15:24 GMT
Combat armor in lore doesn't protect against plasma at all though, and generalizing with rifle rounds is kind of dangerous, 5.56 is not equal to .308, etc etc. Metal armor should idealy be blocking pistol rounds, not rifle rounds in general since rifles typically have vastly better piercing capabilities then handguns. Also, I appreciate clarifying. "The combination armor layers of a suit of adequately-maintained combat armor grant the wearer significant protection from most types of damage, including laser, plasma, ballistic (bullets, shrapnel), and blast damage - uncommon for personal armor." - fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Combat_armorRechecked metal armor. Comparing via stats, metal armor is slightly less than combat armor while reinforced is equivalent to MK. 2 combat. Both lack in durability, though. As stated previously, I made this in approximately 10 minutes. I am fully aware to the piercing capabilities of firearms, however, we are using a combination of both logic and fallout logic in this. There won't be a set level of protection (to my knowledge), hence why I generalize. This doesn't include factors such as ammo type, distance, or current durability, or even luck. This isn't really a standard for the server as much as it's my interpretation of the lore.
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Post by Raksho on Oct 31, 2017 22:40:26 GMT
Low tier:
Leather - Some slashes from blades. Able to partially stop some stabs. Raider - Slashing, stabbing,glancing blunt blunt attacks. Depending on the type (metal), may occasionally block a bullet from handguns. Metal - Slashing, stabbing, blunt, laser. May block pistol, and low calibre rifle rounds depending on distance. Heavy weight reduces mobility, also has up to medium durability depending on the type of metal used. Metal MK. 2 - Slashing, stabbing, glancing blunt attacks, laser, rifle rounds. Heavy weight reduces mobility, also has low durability. Ballistic Vests - Only stops weaker handgun rounds. Low durability.
Medium tier: Stealth Suits - Varies on the suit. Combat - Blocks battle rifle rounds, laser, and low-end plasma. Higher durability and mobility than metal. Combat MK. 2 - Blocks battle rifle rounds, laser, and plasma. Stronger than MK.1. Duh. Ranger Armor - Same as combat MK.2
Max tier: Raider PA - Explosions, high caliber rounds, laser, . T-45 - Explosions, high caliber rounds, laser, low-end plasma, radiation. T-51 - Explosions, high caliber rounds, laser, plasma, electric, radiation APA - Explosions, high caliber rounds, laser, plasma, electric, radiation
This would be my suggestion, slightly modified it to make some more sense in my eyes. Also if we're using the wiki pedia as a source, T-51b Power armor is able to be pierced by a hot-loaded .308.
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Post by Merpkiller on Oct 31, 2017 23:01:42 GMT
Like, are you still arguing this because you're mad that the admins set the price of metal armor that high? Or because you don't like how the logistics of it have actually been set by the staff team?
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Post by Raksho on Nov 1, 2017 0:15:37 GMT
Like, are you still arguing this because you're mad that the admins set the price of metal armor that high? Or because you don't like how the logistics of it have actually been set by the staff team? What, if anything, gave you that impression?
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Post by jtod on Nov 1, 2017 0:31:28 GMT
Like, are you still arguing this because you're mad that the admins set the price of metal armor that high? Or because you don't like how the logistics of it have actually been set by the staff team? There's no reason to instigate things. Please, keep it relevant.
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Post by Merpkiller on Nov 1, 2017 0:31:48 GMT
Idk, the subject was brought up in the shop when you asked. I was just asking because I was curious, wanting to make sure it wasn't a case of that. Didn't want to have it be a case of me having actually angered you with the way I handled it in the shop.
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Post by jtod on Nov 1, 2017 0:45:38 GMT
Low tier: Leather - Some slashes from blades. Able to partially stop some stabs. Raider - Slashing, stabbing,glancing blunt blunt attacks. Depending on the type (metal), may occasionally block a bullet from handguns. Metal - Slashing, stabbing, blunt, laser. May block pistol, and low calibre rifle rounds depending on distance. Heavy weight reduces mobility, also has up to medium durability depending on the type of metal used. Metal MK. 2 - Slashing, stabbing, glancing blunt attacks, laser, rifle rounds. Heavy weight reduces mobility, also has low durability. Ballistic Vests - Only stops weaker handgun rounds. Low durability. Medium tier: Stealth Suits - Varies on the suit. Combat - Blocks battle rifle rounds, laser, and low-end plasma. Higher durability and mobility than metal. Combat MK. 2 - Blocks battle rifle rounds, laser, and plasma. Stronger than MK.1. Duh. Ranger Armor - Same as combat MK.2 Max tier: Raider PA - Explosions, high caliber rounds, laser, . T-45 - Explosions, high caliber rounds, laser, low-end plasma, radiation. T-51 - Explosions, high caliber rounds, laser, plasma, electric, radiation APA - Explosions, high caliber rounds, laser, plasma, electric, radiation This would be my suggestion, slightly modified it to make some more sense in my eyes. Also if we're using the wiki pedia as a source, T-51b Power armor is able to be pierced by a hot-loaded .308. Seems pretty similar. I believe metal should have high damage resistance, but is generally low durability. Raider PA is still PA. Leather is debatable and it depends on the leather, although I lean towards the side it's useless against stabbing. In regards to combat armor, there's not really any such thing as 'low tier plasma' because energy weapons, by default, are pretty powerful. In Fallout 2, one of the Reno gangs used laser pistols to absolutely slaughter the other gangs. Could you cite the source for .308 thing? Most I could find was "over 2500 joules" In my eyes, only anti-material rifles can easily damage PA. PA is generally considered to be a walking tank. In fact, the Wikipedia states that PA can absorb direct missile impacts. I'd say a missile would cause significant damage, but still. "The effectiveness of the T-45 power armor was overwhelming. It served a huge role in pushing back Chinese forces, allowing individual soldiers to take entire towns, protecting the wearers from everything from conventional fire to head on missile impacts. " - fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Power_armor
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Post by Raksho on Nov 1, 2017 1:32:46 GMT
Low tier: Leather - Some slashes from blades. Able to partially stop some stabs. Raider - Slashing, stabbing,glancing blunt blunt attacks. Depending on the type (metal), may occasionally block a bullet from handguns. Metal - Slashing, stabbing, blunt, laser. May block pistol, and low calibre rifle rounds depending on distance. Heavy weight reduces mobility, also has up to medium durability depending on the type of metal used. Metal MK. 2 - Slashing, stabbing, glancing blunt attacks, laser, rifle rounds. Heavy weight reduces mobility, also has low durability. Ballistic Vests - Only stops weaker handgun rounds. Low durability. Medium tier: Stealth Suits - Varies on the suit. Combat - Blocks battle rifle rounds, laser, and low-end plasma. Higher durability and mobility than metal. Combat MK. 2 - Blocks battle rifle rounds, laser, and plasma. Stronger than MK.1. Duh. Ranger Armor - Same as combat MK.2 Max tier: Raider PA - Explosions, high caliber rounds, laser, . T-45 - Explosions, high caliber rounds, laser, low-end plasma, radiation. T-51 - Explosions, high caliber rounds, laser, plasma, electric, radiation APA - Explosions, high caliber rounds, laser, plasma, electric, radiation This would be my suggestion, slightly modified it to make some more sense in my eyes. Also if we're using the wiki pedia as a source, T-51b Power armor is able to be pierced by a hot-loaded .308. Seems pretty similar. I believe metal should have high damage resistance, but is generally low durability. Raider PA is still PA. Leather is debatable and it depends on the leather, although I lean towards the side it's useless against stabbing. In regards to combat armor, there's not really any such thing as 'low tier plasma' because energy weapons, by default, are pretty powerful. In Fallout 2, one of the Reno gangs used laser pistols to absolutely slaughter the other gangs. Could you cite the source for .308 thing? Most I could find was "over 2500 joules" In my eyes, only anti-material rifles can easily damage PA. PA is generally considered to be a walking tank. In fact, the Wikipedia states that PA can absorb direct missile impacts. I'd say a missile would cause significant damage, but still. "The effectiveness of the T-45 power armor was overwhelming. It served a huge role in pushing back Chinese forces, allowing individual soldiers to take entire towns, protecting the wearers from everything from conventional fire to head on missile impacts. " - fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Power_armorMetal generally isn't low durability but at the same time the random metals used in making metal armor wouldn't be armor grade, and as such it shouldn't be THAT good at blocking bullets, much like medieval knights armor(And even some of those could stop pistol balls). And while raider PA is still PA, it's basically just normal metal armor but on steroids, so the only real defense it would have against plasma would be having the plating itsself vaporizing and absorbing the damage. I agree on the points made about leather. Low tier plasma being something along the lines of plasma based pistols, since they don't launch out the same amount of plasma as something like say an urban plasma rifle, or plasma caster. And in fallout 2 the reno gangs used the wattz 1000 laser pistol, the reason it was so powerful was because the men they were fighting against didn't wear any leather armor, which would've done pretty well at lowering the damage caused by laser weapons, hell anything would've been better then the mobsters uniforms I'm thinking about. It was the 2500 joules thing, my point being that the wikipedia is severely contradicting and we should be moving more towards a logic based thing if we want anything to make sense. TBH famalam even if the armor itsself tanked the missle impact, the pressure wave would completely fuck the operator of the power armor, not to mention spalling.
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Post by jtod on Nov 1, 2017 1:43:15 GMT
Metal generally isn't low durability but at the same time the random metals used in making metal armor wouldn't be armor grade, and as such it shouldn't be THAT good at blocking bullets, much like medieval knights armor(And even some of those could stop pistol balls). And while raider PA is still PA, it's basically just normal metal armor but on steroids, so the only real defense it would have against plasma would be having the plating itsself vaporizing and absorbing the damage. I agree on the points made about leather. Low tier plasma being something along the lines of plasma based pistols, since they don't launch out the same amount of plasma as something like say an urban plasma rifle, or plasma caster. And in fallout 2 the reno gangs used the wattz 1000 laser pistol, the reason it was so powerful was because the men they were fighting against didn't wear any leather armor, which would've done pretty well at lowering the damage caused by laser weapons, hell anything would've been better then the mobsters uniforms I'm thinking about. It was the 2500 joules thing, my point being that the wikipedia is severely contradicting and we should be moving more towards a logic based thing if we want anything to make sense. TBH famalam even if the armor itsself tanked the missle impact, the pressure wave would completely fuck the operator of the power armor, not to mention spalling. If this wasn't Fallout RP, I'd generally agree with you. If metal armor was useless against rifles, there'd literally be no low tier armor capable of stopping the most common weapons on the server. Raider PA is debatable and depends on the individual suits. Some might simply be well-used T-45 or something, while others are just the frame with metal on it. I believe that combat armor should resist plasma from rifles, but I don't believe it should survive more than a few shots from it. Leather armor is useless against laser weapons. Metal armor, on the other hand, would have nullified it. At least in FO2. Either way, the point is, laser weaponry is extremely lethal. The wiki doesn't appear to be contradicting itself, to me at least. It says " over 2500 joules." You're correct, but once again, I bring up the Fallout logic card. We don't use absolute realism because, honestly, it's just not that fun and in my experience, tends to piss people off. If PA survives direct missile impacts in Fallout, then I think it should here. Although, it won't be immune to missiles.
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Post by Raksho on Nov 1, 2017 1:54:11 GMT
Eh, I'm not really saying metal armor should be completely useless against rifle rounds, I'm more suggesting we compare metal armor to something like say level IIIa or level III armor, that is to say, being able to stop something like typical 5.56 rounds, shutgun slugs, that sort of thing. Leather armor actually provides some protection against laser weapons, while not alot. It's the same reason why generally wasteland mutants can take alot of punishment from laser weapons, their thick hides (along with melanin) protect them.
I don't think combat armor should be taking more then two shots from an urban plasma rifle before the heat dissipating fabric becomes too hot to continue to be effective.
Polished metal armor would provide great protection against laser weapons since it can simply deflect the laser, unpolished metal armor on the other hand would have a much harder time with laser weapons (though metal would still fare MUCH better then leather) and would take alot more punishment when dealing with laser weapons.
The wiki says over 2500 joules yes, but typical .308 loads are around 3500 joules, over one thousand joules higher then the vague threshold put out by the wiki. This means, assuming perfect condition. That a hunting rifle would straight up able to penetrate the main chestplate of a suit of T-51b power armor, which I'm sure we'll both agree is complete BS.
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Post by jtod on Nov 1, 2017 2:13:17 GMT
Eh, I'm not really saying metal armor should be completely useless against rifle rounds, I'm more suggesting we compare metal armor to something like say level IIIa or level III armor, that is to say, being able to stop something like typical 5.56 rounds, shutgun slugs, that sort of thing. Leather armor actually provides some protection against laser weapons, while not alot. It's the same reason why generally wasteland mutants can take alot of punishment from laser weapons, their thick hides (along with melanin) protect them. Polished metal armor would provide great protection against laser weapons since it can simply deflect the laser, unpolished metal armor on the other hand would have a much harder time with laser weapons (though metal would still fare MUCH better then leather) and would take alot more punishment when dealing with laser weapons. The wiki says over 2500 joules yes, but typical .308 loads are around 3500 joules, over one thousand joules higher then the vague threshold put out by the wiki. This means, assuming perfect condition. That a hunting rifle would straight up able to penetrate the main chestplate of a suit of T-51b power armor, which I'm sure we'll both agree is complete BS. I can agree with that, but I won't be going into specifics as to what exact rounds it can stop. Merely rifle rounds in general, with range also being a factor. At point blank, it will not survive a 30-06, or probably even a slug. At medium distance, it might take a few shots before becoming simply useless. As for leather, I'd honestly believe it'd set it on fire. I dunno. I'd say it'd reduce the damage of the laser some, but it'd honestly be a minor reduction. You're 100% correct. Polished metal would deflect, unpolished would probably absorb it and melt. It says over 2500. For all we know, it could absorb 10,000 or so joules of energy. If it can absorb missiles, I'd say a hunting rifle is truly useless against it. I don't believe we have a point of contention here on this matter.
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Post by Raksho on Nov 1, 2017 2:30:25 GMT
I think we need to be very specific with what kind of rounds metal armor can stop, since intermediate caliber weapons are not the same as battle rifle caliber weapons, something like 5.56 or a 12ga shotslug would lose a ton of energy through distance, but something like .308 winchester would be able to zip through cover and still carry enough energy to shred someone with a light vest. Though something like .30-06 should be able to pass through metal armors pretty easily, since even modern level III+ ballistic plates have a tough time stopping .30-06, but typical level III plates can tank something like 7.62 NATO which carries more energy then a 12ga slug. My point being, we should differentiate between "Intermediate caliber" and "Battle rifle" type rifle rounds when describing armor protection.
I agree with the leather armor though, a laser blast would deffinately light it on fire with it's first or second hit. And yes it'd be a minor reduction, but when dealing with something that can melt your flesh off I think anything is better then nothing.
I guess I can agree with that, could just be the wikipedia being incredibly vague.
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